WoW Forever Rogue Builds: Assassination, Combat, Sub

Specs and roles

Spec	Role	PvE tier	Key point
Assassination	Damage	A	Mutilate with two daggers, poisons
Combat	Damage	A*	Blade Flurry: damage to a second target
Subtlety	Damage	C	A PvP tree, weaker in a group

Tiers come from the beta tier list. The talent tables show only what Icy Veins and Wowhead agree on; each spec says where they differ.

A* for Combat: RankedBoost puts it in B.

Assassination: damage

Assassination gets Mutilate at level 30: a strike with both weapons for 2 combo points that hits harder on a poisoned target. It needs two daggers (Icy Veins). Mutilate builds combo points, Slice and Dice and Eviscerate spend them; Wowhead suggests Rupture against targets with heavy armor.

Talent	Points	Why
Malice	5	Crit chance with attacks and poisons
Ruthlessness	3	Finishers sometimes add a combo point
Relentless Strikes	1	Finishers restore Energy
Cold Blood	1	A guaranteed crit on the next strike
Improved Poisons	4	Poisons proc more often and use fewer charges
Mutilate	1	Your main strike: both weapons, 2 combo points

Icy Veins and Wowhead agree; both take Lethality, but with a different number of points. The rest differs. Icy Veins takes Lethality to 4 and adds Remorseless Attacks 2, skipping Improved Slice and Dice because enemies at these levels die fast. Wowhead takes it at 3 plus Murder 2, damage against humanoids and giants. The Legacy points differ too: Icy Veins takes Improved Poisons to 5 and adds Vile Poisons, Wowhead takes Improved Eviscerate 3 and Opportunity 2.

1
Before the pull
Instant Poison on both weapons, Stealth.
2
Opening
Ambush from Stealth.
3
Mutilate
At 3 combo points or fewer; never at 4–5 (Wowhead).
4
Slice and Dice
Keep it up if the target will live long enough.
5
Eviscerate
Spend spare combo points; Rupture on a target with heavy armor.
6
A physical damage group
Expose Armor on a long-lived target.

TipStats according to Icy Veins (for every Rogue spec): weapon damage first, then hit and Expertise, Agility, crit. In Forever Sap no longer breaks Stealth (Wowhead), so you can use it before a pull.

Combat: damage

Combat is the most complete Rogue spec at level 30. Blade Flurry gives +20% attack speed for 15 seconds and hits one more nearby target; Adrenaline Rush is not available yet. The pattern is the same as at 60: Sinister Strike builds combo points, Slice and Dice and Eviscerate spend them (Wowhead).

Talent	Points	Why
Improved Eviscerate	3	Eviscerate damage
Improved Sinister Strike	2	Cheaper Sinister Strike
Deflection	3	Parry; the path to Riposte
Precision	3	Hit
Endurance	2	Shorter Sprint and Evasion cooldowns
Riposte	1	A strike after a parry that disarms
Improved Sprint	1	Sprint can remove slows
Flawless Execution	1	Eviscerate costs 10 less Energy
Dual Wield Specialization	4	Off-hand damage
Blade Flurry	1	+20% attack speed and a hit on a second target

Here Icy Veins and Wowhead match fully, all 21 points. Both spend the Legacy points on Hack and Slash 5: with a sword or an axe your attacks sometimes grant an extra hit. With a good dagger, Icy Veins suggests looking at Puncturing Wounds, and Wowhead has a separate dagger build.

1
Opening
Ambush with a dagger, Garrote without one (Icy Veins).
2
Blade Flurry
With plenty of Energy: against several enemies and on a boss.
3
Riposte
Every time it is available.
4
Sinister Strike
Your main strike; Backstab with a dagger from behind.
5
Slice and Dice
Keep it up; refresh it at the last moment (Wowhead).
6
Eviscerate
Spend spare combo points.

TipIn Forever, combo points stay on a target even if you switch to another one, but you cannot transfer them (Icy Veins). If the target is about to die, Wowhead suggests spending them on Slice and Dice, which carries over to the next enemy.

Subtlety: damage

On the beta tier list Subtlety is C for dungeons: it is a PvP tree. At level 30 it gets Hemorrhage, a strike with no need to stand behind the target that makes Rupture deal 15% more damage for 15 seconds. It becomes your main strike, except for Ambush from Stealth.

Talent	Points	Why
Premeditation	1	2 combo points before the fight
Hemorrhage	1	Your main strike; boosts Rupture
Setup	3	A combo point after a dodge
Serrated Blades	3	Ignores part of the target’s armor; stronger Rupture
Initiative	3	An extra combo point from Ambush, Garrote and Cheap Shot
Opportunity	2	Backstab, Garrote, Ambush and Mutilate damage

Icy Veins and Wowhead agree; both take Camouflage, but Icy Veins puts 4 points into it and Wowhead 1. Wowhead calls Opportunity, Initiative, Premeditation, Serrated Blades and Hemorrhage mandatory and the rest a matter of taste. Icy Veins adds Improved Ambush and Ghostly Strike, Wowhead adds Elusiveness, Dirty Tricks and Master of Deception. With Legacy points both take Preparation: it resets your cooldowns, which means a second Vanish.

1
Opening
Garrote or Ambush from Stealth.
2
Hemorrhage
Your main strike.
3
Slice and Dice
Keep it up.
4
Rupture
On a sturdy target that will live through its full duration.
5
Eviscerate
Spend spare combo points.
6
An enemy turns to you
Evasion or Vanish (Icy Veins).

TipFor dungeons the beta tier list points to Assassination or Combat. A Subtlety Backstab build needs both Hemorrhage and Puncturing Wounds, and at level 30 there are not enough points for both (Wowhead).

Questions

Which Rogue spec is best for dungeons?

On the beta tier list Assassination is A, Combat is A* (B at RankedBoost), Subtlety is C.

Does Assassination need daggers?

Yes: Mutilate needs two daggers (Icy Veins). Combat works with swords and axes too; with a dagger it uses Backstab.

Which poisons should I use?

Icy Veins puts Instant Poison on both weapons before a pull. Assassination gets Deadly Poison at level 30 (Wowhead).

When will the full level 60 build be out?

After the Nov 4 launch: the beta only went up to level 30, and raids open on Dec 9. Then we will add the layout for all 51 points.

Rogue Builds